Comments on: On Taxonomies of Music/Worship Philosophies http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies Just another WordPress weblog Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:20:39 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Scott Aniol http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-802 Scott Aniol Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:02:36 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-802 Thanks you for your kind words, Matt. Thanks you for your kind words, Matt.

]]> By: Matt Pinson http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-801 Matt Pinson Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:31:48 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-801 Dear Mr. Aniol, I am reading your book Worship in Song and am enjoying it immensely. Thank you for your service to the church. Sincerely, Matt Pinson Dear Mr. Aniol, I am reading your book Worship in Song and am enjoying it immensely. Thank you for your service to the church. Sincerely, Matt Pinson

]]> By: Scott Aniol http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-688 Scott Aniol Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:26:31 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-688 Hi, Bill. Boy, those are huge questions; things that I'm trying to deal with step by step. So I probably won't answer them fully here at this point. But a couple quick answers: 1. This is a distinction that I've been thinking about more recently. In my mind there is a difference between holding to a certain music style (even conservative) simply out of tradition and not out of principle and holding to conservative music because you truly understand and believe conservative principles. I think a lot of fundamentalists, for instance, reject pop music more out of tradition than adherence to true, conservative principles, and this is evidenced by the fact that they use out-of-date pop music. 2. Certainly motivation can't be discerned perfectly, but there are certain characteristics of musical forms that do evidence underlying motivation. But that's a huge subject that I deal with now and then here. 3. This is another huge subject. I would suggest that a lot of "gospel songs" are simply the CCM of the turn of the century. Not all, mind you ("Hallelujah What a Savior" would be an example of an excellent hymn that could be characterized as a gospel song because of its author), but most. 4. Engaging worship, in my mind, uses musical forms in order to move people, to "engage" them, to help motivate them and give them an encounter with God in worship. Modest worship uses musical forms that do not draw attention to themselves. The music is used, not to "move" or "motivate," but to give a language for the expression of right affections to the Lord. Hi, Bill. Boy, those are huge questions; things that I’m trying to deal with step by step. So I probably won’t answer them fully here at this point. But a couple quick answers:

1. This is a distinction that I’ve been thinking about more recently. In my mind there is a difference between holding to a certain music style (even conservative) simply out of tradition and not out of principle and holding to conservative music because you truly understand and believe conservative principles. I think a lot of fundamentalists, for instance, reject pop music more out of tradition than adherence to true, conservative principles, and this is evidenced by the fact that they use out-of-date pop music.

2. Certainly motivation can’t be discerned perfectly, but there are certain characteristics of musical forms that do evidence underlying motivation. But that’s a huge subject that I deal with now and then here.

3. This is another huge subject. I would suggest that a lot of “gospel songs” are simply the CCM of the turn of the century. Not all, mind you (“Hallelujah What a Savior” would be an example of an excellent hymn that could be characterized as a gospel song because of its author), but most.

4. Engaging worship, in my mind, uses musical forms in order to move people, to “engage” them, to help motivate them and give them an encounter with God in worship. Modest worship uses musical forms that do not draw attention to themselves. The music is used, not to “move” or “motivate,” but to give a language for the expression of right affections to the Lord.

]]> By: Bill Pearce http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-686 Bill Pearce Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:40:17 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-686 Hello Scott, I just have a request, as you continue thinking on this taxonomy. Many of your readers (I hope its not just me) are very interested in music issues, but very ignorant at the same time (something I'm trying to correct). The most interesting facet of this taxonomy will be how you divide your own perspective from the "Classic Conservative" perspective, and I have some questions that will help people like me understand better the issues involved. 1) What is the difference between traditional and conservative musical styles 2) How can motivation be detected in songs, and what are some examples of these motivations 3) What exactly is your position regarding the "gospel song" genre, and what is meant by that term 4) Can you illustrate the difference between modest worship and engaging worship Thanks for the good work. I look forward to continuing my education< Bill Hello Scott,
I just have a request, as you continue thinking on this taxonomy. Many of your readers (I hope its not just me) are very interested in music issues, but very ignorant at the same time (something I’m trying to correct). The most interesting facet of this taxonomy will be how you divide your own perspective from the “Classic Conservative” perspective, and I have some questions that will help people like me understand better the issues involved.
1) What is the difference between traditional and conservative musical styles
2) How can motivation be detected in songs, and what are some examples of these motivations
3) What exactly is your position regarding the “gospel song” genre, and what is meant by that term
4) Can you illustrate the difference between modest worship and engaging worship

Thanks for the good work. I look forward to continuing my education<

Bill

]]> By: Scott Aniol http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-662 Scott Aniol Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:16:22 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-662 I think Everson's point was that they argue that music communicates morality, i.e. it is not neutral. That principle is certainly something we all share, and those to the left of us would deny. But I think you're right that the arguments differ in a lot of ways beyond that, which is why Everson rightly (I think) divided the two groups in his taxonomy. I understand what you were doing with yours, and I think there was great value in your chart if you were talking about the doctrine of separation. But when it comes to culture issues, they really run the full spread amongst your otherwise helpful categories! I think Everson’s point was that they argue that music communicates morality, i.e. it is not neutral. That principle is certainly something we all share, and those to the left of us would deny.

But I think you’re right that the arguments differ in a lot of ways beyond that, which is why Everson rightly (I think) divided the two groups in his taxonomy.

I understand what you were doing with yours, and I think there was great value in your chart if you were talking about the doctrine of separation. But when it comes to culture issues, they really run the full spread amongst your otherwise helpful categories!

]]> By: Jeff Straub http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-661 Jeff Straub Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:09:48 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-661 Scott: i do not know that I have ever heard anyone at BJU, the Wilds, Majesty Music, etc. make anything like a biblical, moral argument for music . . . especially not like the kind of argument that KTB makes. These groups have a music genre all their own, but I would not call it classic conservative since most of this music is of their own making. My categories were imprecise at best and I was really not entering the culture wars with my taxonomy, but I intend to make a serious study of this issue in the coming months starting with your book. *-) I thought I would read John Frame after that! Jeff Straub Scott:

i do not know that I have ever heard anyone at BJU, the Wilds, Majesty Music, etc. make anything like a biblical, moral argument for music . . . especially not like the kind of argument that KTB makes. These groups have a music genre all their own, but I would not call it classic conservative since most of this music is of their own making. My categories were imprecise at best and I was really not entering the culture wars with my taxonomy, but I intend to make a serious study of this issue in the coming months starting with your book. *-) I thought I would read John Frame after that!

Jeff Straub

]]> By: Scott Aniol http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-659 Scott Aniol Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:29:59 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-659 I do mean restrained. Modest means not drawing attention to itself, as opposed to worship that is "engaging" or "motivating" us to "feel" something. Modest worship grips the affections to be sure, but it maintains the proper distinction between affections (something immaterial and spiritual) and physical feelings. I do mean restrained. Modest means not drawing attention to itself, as opposed to worship that is “engaging” or “motivating” us to “feel” something. Modest worship grips the affections to be sure, but it maintains the proper distinction between affections (something immaterial and spiritual) and physical feelings.

]]> By: Tim Barr http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-658 Tim Barr Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:15:26 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-658 I appreciated your thoughts but I have one question. I was wondering why you chose the word "modest." Are you implying appropriateness or restraint? Possibly, a different sentiment? I simply ask because I do not think that anyone who claims one of the other motivations would describe himself as immodest or anti-modest. This term could be taken as pejorative. I appreciated your thoughts but I have one question. I was wondering why you chose the word “modest.” Are you implying appropriateness or restraint? Possibly, a different sentiment? I simply ask because I do not think that anyone who claims one of the other motivations would describe himself as immodest or anti-modest. This term could be taken as pejorative.

]]> By: Scott Aniol http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-630 Scott Aniol Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:20:05 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-630 It's not available for free anywhere that I know of. At one time it was available at their online store, but it's being updated or something right now. It’s not available for free anywhere that I know of. At one time it was available at their online store, but it’s being updated or something right now.

]]> By: C A Watson http://www.religiousaffectionsministries.org/articles/music/on-taxonomies-of-musicworship-philosophies#comment-629 C A Watson Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:15:25 +0000 http://religiousaffectionsministries.org/?p=1865#comment-629 Is Everson's session available anywhere for download? Is Everson’s session available anywhere for download?

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